anarchy and zen buddhism

[chief108]

regelmatig krijg ik de vraag waar die quote in mijn sig vandaan komt

die komt van Brad Warner (http://hardcorezen.blogspot.com/) en die gast schrijft boeken die je eigenlijk gewoon zou meten lezen...


Hardcore Zen

geen zweverige shit, geen religieus gebrabbel

maar hij laat hoe anarchie en zen boeddhisme enorme overeenkomsten hebben
want beide komen uiteindelijk op het punt waarbij je vragen bij alles stelt
om zodoende je mind helemaal vrij te maken van alle paternalisme die je hebben gevormd sinds je geboorte

echt een aanrader
ook voor niet anarchisten en/ of niet boeddhisten

hardcore fun...

http://sitb-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35lerXgvNH+rjYqeHjQCuSVKoybnxgtGJq+QpDG8itTF B4bPUEVZKcTv4YMqTvQ5Qvsdo= (http://www.amazon.com/dp/086171380X?tag=hardzen-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=086171380X&adid=1F5SAMGZ3APJ7J8W9RDV&)


There's a Zen story about a teacher who holds up his finger, then reminds his student to look beyond the finger itself, to what the finger is pointing at-the moon.
That's what this book does: it transcends itself-and with outrageous style. Warner, an early-'80s hardcore punk musician, discovered Zen in college, moved to Japan to make B-grade monster movies, and eventually became a bona fide Zen master by formally receiving "dharma transmission."
Yet true to his punk spirit, he relentlessly demands that all teaching, all beliefs, all authority-including his own-must be questioned. ("Why should you listen to me? Who the hell am I?... No one. No one at all.")
By turns wickedly funny, profane, challenging and iconoclastic-but always with genuine kindness-Warner devotes chapters to some common Zen notions such as the oneness of reality ("Why Gene Simmons Is Not a Zen Master"), reincarnation ("In My Next Life I Want to Come Back as a Pair of Lucy Liu's Panties") and the vital importance of the present moment ("Eating a Tangerine is Real Enlightenment").
Yet this is no litany of Zen orthodoxy designed for study.
By liberally sharing anecdotes from his own life as a down-and-out punk rocker and maker of monster movies, Warner constantly focuses on the importance of a direct experience of reality in all its rawness over adherence to any set of beliefs-even Zen ones.
Entertaining, bold and refreshingly direct, this book is likely to change the way one experiences other books about Zen-and maybe even the way one experiences reality.

[chief108]

Sit Down and Shut Up: Punk Rock Commentaries on Buddha, God, Truth, Sex, Death, and Dogen's Treasury of the Right Dharma Eye



zijn tweede boek is ook leuk
maar gaat op sommige plekken wat dieper in op het echt boeddhisme

moet je van houden (/ tegen kunnen)

schrijfstijl en humor zijn hetzelfde als eerste boek
en ook hierin zet hij de hele tijd allerlei bestaande denkbeelden compleet op z'n kop

http://sitb-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leoSH6w/K3EYoiEuudXb/KbkzYsokZUkmFhJd1dPnlj16F8RwKyZGlb9sl5ympWqLMU= (http://www.amazon.com/reader/1577315596?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt#reader_1577315596)

[wilhelmus777]

en een 3e is er inmiddels ook

http://www.bol.com/nl/p/boeken-engels/zen-wrapped-in-karma-dipped-in-chocolate/1001004006400735/index.html

[chief108]

Zen Wrapped in Karma Dipped in Chocolate: A Trip Through Death, Sex, Divorce, and Spiritual Celebrity in Search of the True Dharma


meer een verhaal over zijn leven
of beter gezegd: hoe alles in zijn leven naar de kloten ging

erg mooi om te lezen dat een Zen Master niet een perfect heilig boontje is waarin nooit wat ergs gebeurd
gast heeft echt een pokke jaar gehad
en dat heel mooi beschreven

en besluit het boek met de belofte dat hij de rest van zijn leven een asshole zal blijven :p

zijn 3e boek

http://sitb-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leoSH6w/K3EYoiFb6mZSM30XkH0uaJE4wOoO1EQDTffoOcRGgLla4IHXhT 2MpdwBV6g= (http://www.amazon.com/dp/1577316541?tag=hardzen-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1577316541&adid=012277N2RA3RYDMBP1NX&)

[chief108]

op joeptjoep staan ook filmpjes van hem...
doubtboy (http://www.youtube.com/user/doubtboy)



Brad Warner: Are Buddhists Allowed to Jack Off

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVQKndwkQ5k


Brad Warner: Buddha Was a Good Ol' Boy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggJEkc58xaY

[wilhelmus777]

dat ie zo'n enorme eo kop heeft is wel een afknapper

[wilhelmus777]

eigenlijk heb ik gewoon zin om m in mekaar te trappen

[chief108]

hahaha...

niet echt wat je bij een hardcore punker voorstelt nee...

er is nog zo'n gast die ook Punk Boeddhisme boekies schrijft

Noah Levine, met z'n Dharma Punx

ziet er een heel stuk stoerder uit
goede titels van z'n boeken
zit onder de tats enzo...
kale kop d'r bij

prima dus

http://sitb-images.amazon.com/Qffs+v35leryguk8dJ53v3JO5cmEJcZHKPYPd5I82ariW9yo7p FTPNhbAwMgYwneZGhp0/fM8G0=

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Noah_Levine.jpg/800px-Noah_Levine.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Noah_Levine.jpg)

maar die boeken....
allemaal huilie huilie over hoe slecht zijn jeugde was, hij bijna kapot ging aan drank en drugs en hoe uiteindelijk toen hij in de bak zat Boeddhisme zijn leven gered en veranderd heeft.... :finger:

alleen in het eerste boek staat een leuk stuk stuk hoe hij tijdens een trektocht door India een paar wijfen ontmoet had, in bed met ze belande en er toen achterkwam dat beffen in een warm, vochtig klimaat zonder goede hygiëne voorzieningen geen goed idee was :D

[wilhelmus777]

ah bah stinkkutten

[chief108]

gast is een week ziek geweest zelfs...
was zat toen hij aan het likken sloeg :p

[wilhelmus777]

als het stinkt dan lik je er toch niet aan ?
hoef je geen raketgeleerde voor te zijn...

[chief108]

tja zou je wel denk idd
maar wie weet broeiden er ook wel allerlei andere zaken in die kutjes die niet echt stonken ofzo
geen idee
was er niet bij ;)

[roy s]

die laatste foto is leuk...
er zit een man met een blauw t-shirt aan rechts achterin helemaal in de put!!


de laatste likker:laugh:

[chief108]

fuckin' emo buddhist punx

[chief108]

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7697/bradb.jpg

[chief108]

lijkt me wel tof om daar heen te gaan...
ook wat voor jou Engeltje?

[ataraxia]

Daarheen? Naar holland? :)

[chief108]

:slap:
althans dat denk ik

[FOCUS]

die gast met die Ohm op zn borst
dat symbool stond ook op die goede ouwe postzegels van weleer:wierdo:

[chief108]

focus:
http://hkham.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/hm36drugs-are-bad-posters.jpg

[wilhelmus777]

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7697/bradb.jpg



nou daar zal wel een muffig stelletje zen-nerds op af komen

[chief108]

ben wel benieuwd naar dat publiek ja...
als zen-nerd zijnde :)

[Socra]

nou daar zal wel een muffig stelletje zen-nerds op af komen

Tweede generatie hippie meisjes! :thup:

[d4nd3l10n]

biologische hippie veganisten..

Ik ga flip ff meevragen.

[ataraxia]

Tweede generatie hippie meisjes! :thup:

:laugh:

Maar ja, jij bent dan niet eens in holland :)

[Socra]

6 nog wel...

[d4nd3l10n]

:brow:

[Socra]

:brow:

Jij denkt dat dat invloed heeft op je kansen?

[d4nd3l10n]

Laat een nigger toch fantaseren ouwe brom beer...

[ataraxia]

Wishfull paardenbloempje:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3413/imgp7869.jpg

[chief108]

12 en 13 juni is hij in Amsterdam
http://web.me.com/doubtboy/Site/BookTour_2010.html

[chief108]

<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l0w_BTYQQL8&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l0w_BTYQQL8&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

[chief108]

new book in Sept. "Sex, Sin and Zen"

[ataraxia]

Zazenkai/Zazendag met Brad Warner

13-06-2010


Datum: zondag 13 juni 2010
Plaats: Kapelruimte, Erasmuslaan 15, Nijmegen
Met: Brad Warner
Kosten: 20,-, inclusief koffie, thee, sap
Lunch: Zelf meenemen. Tijdens de middagpauze kun je ook een (warme) maaltijd gebruiken in "Restofant", het restaurant van het Radboudziekenhuis
Opgave: Hanny van de weerdt,
e-mail: hannyvandeweerdt@gmail.com
telefoon: 06-51509276

Brad Warner (1964) is een Amerikaanse zenleraar met opvallende achtergrond. Hij speelde vanaf 1982 basgitaar in de hardcore punk bands Zero Defex en Dimentia 13, waarmee hij 5 platen opnam. Ongeveer tezelfdertijd maakte hij
kennis met zen en de beoefening van zazen. In 1993 verhuisde hij naar Japan om te werken voor een bedrijf dat films met gigantische monsters maakt, zijn jongensdroom in vervulling. Daar maakte hij tevens kennis met Gudo Wafu
Nishijima, één van de dharma-opvolgers van Kodo Sawaki en vertaler van Dogen's complete Shobogenzo, 4 kloeke delen in Engelse vertaling. Brad is opvolger van Nishijima en staat in de Soto-traditie binnen zen. Zijn no-nonsense benadering is inmiddels te lezen in 3 boeken: 'Hardcore Zen' (2003), 'Sit Down and Shut Up' (2007) en 'Zen Wrapped in Karma, Dipped in Chocolate' (2009). Hij maakt op dit moment een reis door Europa en staat open om een zazendag ofwel zazenkai met ons te doen in Nijmegen. Een mooie kans om zazen te beoefenen en kennis te maken met stem en geluid van Brad Warner, waarvoor we je graag uitnodigen. Het programma vind je hieronder.

Aan iedereen het uitdrukkelijke verzoek je telefonisch of per e-mail vóór maandag 7 juni a.s. op te geven. Graag bij aankomst gepast betalen, zodat de inschrijving ter plekke vlot en soepel kan verlopen. Zonder tegenbericht ben je na opgave van een plaats verzekerd.

Welkom! Met hartelijke groet,
Hanny van de Weerdt en Joseph Wijsmuller.

Programma Zazenkai/Zazendag
13 juni 2010
Met Brad Warner

08.30 - 09.00 aankomst en inschrijving/arrival
09.00 - 09.30 inleiding/introduct. - instructie/instructionzazen
09.30 - 09.40 kinhin
09.40 - 10.10 zazen
10.10 - 10.20 kinhin
10.20 - 10.45 zazen
10.45 - 11.15 koffie- en theepauze/coffeebreak
11.15 - 12.15 teisho/talk - mondo/discussion
12.15 - 12.20 reciteren hartsutra/heartsutra
12.20 - 14.00 middagpauze/lunchbreak
14.00 - 14.25 zazen
14.25 - 14.35 kinhin
14.35 - 15.00 zazen
15.00 - 15.15 theeceremonie/teaceremony
15.15 - 15.45 stille wandeling buiten/outdoor walk
15.45 - 16.00 pauze/break
16.00 - 16.25 zazen
16.25 - 16.35 kinhin
16.35 - 17.00 zazen
17.00 afronding/conclusion

Wat een toestand...

[chief108]

wel waar voor je geld...

maar ik reken op een fikse kater die dag
dus gaat niet lukken :)

[ataraxia]

Ik heb gewoon geen zin om vandaag vast moeten te leggen wat ik zondag ga doen :)

[chief108]

ach...
wat gaat er nou uiteindelijk gebeuren daar?
lopen, zitten, lopen, zitten, theedrinken
blah blah blah, eten
zitten, lopen, zitten, theedrinken
buiten lopen, pauze
zitten, lopen, zitten, klaar

[ataraxia]

:sleep:

[chief108]

zen is niet echt exciting shit nee...

[ataraxia]

Moet wel zeggen dat ik laatst voor het eerst twee keer op een dag een flink lange meditatietraining heb gedaan, en ik was aan het einde van de dag helemaal gesloopt...

[chief108]

zitten is het zwaarste wat ik ooit gedaan heb :D

[FOCUS]

hmm, meditatietraining veonderstelt dat je daadwerkelijk een inspanning levert tijdens het mediteren. Voor zover ik aan meditatie doe (persoonlijk heb ik meer aan mediCatie), drukt mijn spiegologe me altijd op het hart om juist niet teveel te willen en proberen, en dat zelfs niet willen proberen op hetzelfde neerkomt als wel iets proberen..
ahem, klink ik nog enigszins zinnig> :shutup:

[chief108]

Zen Meditation

When somebody ask a Zen monk what do you do in meditation, he replies,
" I do nothing. I just sit empty and that's all I do."

Now I will describe a very interesting and simple meditation.
It is the 'Zen' Meditation. The 'Zen' is the word used in Eastern World (of Tibbet, Japan and China) for 'Dhyan' or Meditation.

Many great mediators have said about meditation -

"Just be still and know"
This Zen meditation is the methods of Zen monks who just be still and know. If you just sit still & empty, you will be doing Zen meditation. I will tell you how a lay man can do it.

The main thing is how to be still and empty from inside ?

Zen meditation is the technique which gradually takes us to the state of absolute stillness and emptiness. However it takes some time to master it. Nevertheless, it is one of the most easiest and effective meditation technique. Before starting Zen meditation it is essential to understand some important things about our mind. Our mind (whose physiological counterpart is Brain ) is consist of two parts- left and right mind (brain). Both these two left and right parts give rise to different creative urges in us. The left Brain takes care of logic, theology, philosophy, math and science etc. All the thought process happens in this left Brain. Where as the right mind give rise to music, art, painting, love & other emotions. The right mind immensely facilitates the process of meditation. Right mind do not think. It is deeply related to the source of infinite creativity. Here thoughts does not arise as a thinking process, rather anything happens as an instant flash of creativity. This part does not think. This part feels. In Zen meditation we'll use our right brain to make our mind free of thoughts

Sit in the lotus pose (cross legged) keeping your spine straight.

put your hands on each other in your lap.

[sitting in lotus pose with straight spine and touching your hands will ensure that you do not fall asleep]

Now look at your left hand. just look. Aware of the left part of your body. look at the left hand in an empty manner. Just look. Don't let any thought to pop up in your mind. look blankly on your left hand and try to feel the left portion of your body. …feel the left part….feel…

This very process will activate your right brain. When the right brain activates, it results in disappearance of thoughts. Your thought will start disappearing… [ Slowly after a few session of practicing this meditation , you will be able to instantly achieve this state of disappearance of thoughts ]

Now inhale deeply….count one.

Then exhale deeply…count two.

Inhale again…… deeply….. Count three….

exhale again…..deeply..…...count four.


Continue this deep breathing and count up to ten..

Now keep inhaling and exhaling after ten…11….12…13….but make your breathing normal (that is don't take deep breath. Just continue counting and breathing normally). Don't take deep breath. just breath in a normal way.

If in between the counting, you forget counting….start again.

Do these inhalation and exhalation for half an hour. Now again inhale and exhale one more time deeply. your meditation is complete. ??????

Complete ? yes for the first day it is enough. But keep in mind this is the first step…

Do the above meditation process for one week. just inhale and exhale for half an hour in lotus pose after activating your right mind by using the procedure described above. For one week just do this. ..

After one week…

Now make some modification in this meditation. The process will remain the same but now instead of counting both inhalation and exhalation, just count inhalation. It means fist of all inhale and exhale deeply while counting up to ten. Then restore normal breathing and count only inhalation as 11, 12. .... so in. Do this for one week.

Next week……

Continue doing this meditation for half an hour daily. But now, stop counting. Just inhale and exhale …inhale…..Exhale . Just be aware of inhalation and exhalation. Do it for one week

Next week…..

Just sit . Just sit in the lotus pose. Neither count nor inhale or exhale. The breathing will go on itself. But don't be aware of the inhalation or exhalation. Sit silently. Be aware of the moment. Be still. You'll be in state of Zen. The state of absolute stillness. The state of just sitting.

[FOCUS]

gaaf
thnx Chief

ben zelf wel n fan van Eckhart Tolle (de kracht van het nu)

hij zegt ook: je bent niet je gedachten, dus het heeft zeker raakvlakken volgens mij


en ik doe het 'mediteren' liggend, want mijn lijf gaat na een paar minuten lotushouding onverbiddelijk protesteren en dan is de pijn in mn rug allesoverheersend en dan gaat het mediteren voor geen meter (wat dat betreft, ik heb ook zo'n verschrikkelijke hekel aan de zonnegroet. Als ik die doe, kan ik de rest van de week als invalide door het leven).

[chief108]

op zich is zazen (zen meditatie) erg simpel...
vandaar ook het boek:
http://ebooks-imgs.connect.com/product/400/000/000/000/000/156/035/400000000000000156035_s4.jpg

en toch is het het zwaarste wat ik ooit gedaan heb....

[FOCUS]

Om de weg te gaan die wordt beschreven in De kracht van het Nu dien je de indentificatie me je analytische geest en het daardoor gecreërde onechte zelf, het ego, te laten varen. We zijn ons denken niet. We kunnen onszelf van psychische pijn verlossen. Je authentieke kracht wordt pas gemobiliseerd door je over te geven aan het Nu. Hier vinden we vreugde en zijn we in staat ons ware zelf te omarmen.
Daar komen we er ook achter dat we al 'heel' en 'volmaakt' zijn



uit 'de kracht van het nu'


dus 'je pense, donc je suis' monsieur Descartes zat er HELEMAAL naast LOL

[chief108]

hier staan wel wat leuke artikeltjes van BW: http://suicidegirls.com/news/contributors/brad_warner/
en verder is het ook een erg aangename website :)

[chief108]

http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/boring_files/image001.jpgZEN IS BORING

Let's face it. Zen is boring. You couldn't find a duller, more tedious practice than Zazen. The philosophy is dry and unexciting. It's amazing to me anyone reads this page at all. Don't you people know you could be playing Tetris, right now? That there are a million free porno sites out there? Get a life, why don't you?!

Joshu Sasaki, a Zen teacher from the Rinzai Sect, once said that Buddhist teachers always try to make students long for the Buddha World, but that if the students knew how really dry and tasteless the Buddha World actually was, they'd never want to go. He's right. Look at Zen teachers. Not a one of them has any sense of fashion. They sit around staring at blank walls. Ask them about levitation, they won't tell you. Ask them about life after death, they change the subject. Ask them about miracles and they start spouting nonsense about carrying buckets of water and chopping up fire wood. They go to bed early and wake up early. Zen is a philosophy for nerds.

Boredom is important. Most of your life is dull, tasteless and boring. If you practice Zazen, you learn a lot about boredom. I remember the first time I sat Zazen, I was real excited. I figured I'd be seeing visions of four armed Krishnas descending from the Heavens, or I'd be fading into The Void just like the old Beatles song, or reach Nirvana (whatever that was) or some great wonderful thing. But the clock just ticked away, my legs started aching, and stupid thoughts kept drifting by. Maybe I wasn't doing it right, I thought. But no, year after year it was the same. Boring, boring, boring. After almost 20 years it's still boring as Hell.

People hate their ordinary lives. We want something better. This, our day to day life of drudgery and work, is boring, dull and ordinary, we think. But someday, someday... There's an episode of The Monkees* where Mike Nesmith says that when he was in high school he used to walk out on the school's empty stage with a guitar in his hands thinking "Someday, someday." Then he said that now (now being 1967, at the height of the Monkees fame) he walks out on stage in front of thousands of fans and thinks "Someday, someday." That's the way life is. It's never going to be perfect. Whatever "someday" you imagine, it will ever come. Never. No matter what it is. No matter how well you build your fantasy or how carefully you follow all the steps necessary to achieve it. Even if it comes true exactly the way you planned, you'll end up just like Mike Nesmith. Someday, someday... I guarantee you.

Your life will change. That's for sure. But it won't get any better and it won't get any worse. How can you compare now to the past? What do you know about the past? You don't have a clue! You have no idea at all what yesterday was really like, let alone last week or ten years ago. The future? Forget about it...

People long for big thrills. Peak experiences. Some people come to Zen expecting that Enlightenment will be the Ultimate Peak Experience. The Mother of All Peak Experiences. But real enlightenment is the most ordinary of the ordinary. Once I had an amazing vision. I saw myself transported through time and space. Millions, no, billions, trillions, Godzillions of years passed. Not figuratively, but literally. Whizzed by. I found myself at the very rim of time and space, a vast giant being composed of the living minds and bodies of every thing that ever was. It was an incredibly moving experience. Exhilarating. I was high for weeks. Finally I told Nishijima Sensei about it . He said it was nonsense. Just my imagination. I can't tell you how that made me feel. Imagination? This was as real an experience as any I've ever had. I just about cried. Later on that day I was eating a tangerine. I noticed how incredibly lovely a thing it was. So delicate. So amazingly orange. So very tasty. So I told Nishijima about that. That experience, he said, was enlightenment.

You need a teacher like that. The world needs lots more teachers like that. Countless teachers would have interpreted my experience as a merging of my Atman with God, as a portent of great and wonderful things, would have praised my spiritual growth and given me pointers on how to go even further. And I would have been suckered right in to that, let me tell you! Woulda fallen for it hook line and sinker, boy howdy. If a teacher doesn't shatter your illusions he's doing you no favors at all.

Boredom is what you need. Merging with the Mind of God at the Edge of the Universe, that's excitement. That's what we're all into this Zen thing for, right? Eating tangerines? Come on, dude! What could be more boring than eating a tangerine?

Some years ago some psychologists did a study in which they sat some Buddhists monks and some regular folks in a room and wired them up to EEG machines to record their brain activity. They told everyone to relax, then introduced a repetitive stimulus, a loudly ticking clock, into the room. The normal folks' EEG showed that their brains stopped reacting the stimulus after a few seconds. But the Buddhists just kept on mentally registering the tick every time it happened. Psychologists and journalists never quite know how to interpret that finding, though it's often cited. It's a simple matter. Buddhists pay attention to their lives. Ordinary folks figure they have better things to think about.

If you really take a look at your ordinary boring life, you'll discover something truly wonderful. Our regular old pointless lives are incredibly joyful -- amazingly, astoundingly, relentlessly, mercilessly joyful. You don't need to do a damned thing to experience such joy either. People think they need big experiences, interesting experiences. And it's true that gigantic, traumatic experiences sometimes bring people, for a fleeting moment, into a kind of enlightened state. That's why such experiences are so desired. But it wears off fast and you're right back out there looking for the next thrill. You don't need to take drugs, blow up buildings, win the Indy 500 or walk on the moon. You don't need to go hang-gliding over the Himalayas, you don't need to screw your luscious and oh-so-willing secretary or party all night with the beautiful people. You don't need visions of merging with the totality of the Universe. Just be what you are, where you are. Clean the toilet. Walk the dog. Do your work. That's the most magical thing there is. If you really want to merge with God, that's the way to do it. This moment. You sitting there with your hand in your underwear and potato chip crumbs on your chin, scrolling down your computer screen thinking "This guy's out of his mind." This very moment is Enlightenment. This moment has never come before and once it's gone, it's gone forever. You are this moment. This moment is you. This very moment is you merging with the total Universe, with God Himself.

The life you're living right now has joys even God will never know.

FOOTNOTE
*For those of you not up on old US pop culture, The Monkees was a TV comedy show about a rock and roll band that ran from 1967-68 and was rerun throughout the 70s. The Monkees were supposed to be just like The Beatles. Mike Nesmith was the "leader" of the band, the John Lennon character. To everyone's surprise, when The Monkees, a fake rock band, went on tour they attracted almost as many squealing teenage fans as The Beatles had a few years before.

SOURCE (http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/boring.html)
(http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/index.html)

[chief108]

http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/posture_files/image001.jpgPROPER POSTURE REQUIRED

In Zero Defex we had a song called "Proper Attire Required" which was a rant about music clubs that wouldn't let you come in unless you wore a tie, as well as the whole mentality surrounding that kind of idea. The thought that anyone would even want to pay money to go to a place that required you to wear a tie -- that forced you to conform -- was appalling. So I shouldn't have been surprised when I got some angry responses to my statement in the last installment (http://homepage.mac.com/TPC%20Zen%20Page%20File/zen%20page/TIME.html) that zazen was a "proper posture required" practice, and that if you didn't do zazen in the proper posture you were missing out on 90% of the practice.
But I stand by what I said; proper posture is a requirement of zazen practice. I'm not the only one who says this, by the way. Check out the chapter "Posture" in Shunryu Suzuki's Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind or Dogen's chapter "Fukanzazenji" (Guidelines for Practicing Zazen) in Shobogenzo or just about anything written by Gudo Nishijima. But I'm not going to try and bamboozle you with quotes from renowned authorities. It's what you discover for yourself that's important. And what I've discovered for myself is that proper posture in zazen is absolutely vital to the practice.
People want Zen to be an "anything goes" type of philosophy. Sometimes people mistake the Zen insistence that wherever you are and whatever you are right now is Reality itself for the idea that anything goes. But anything does not go. Buddhism is about discovering the things that "go," that really work and make our lives and the lives of others better and happier, and the things that do not "go," that make ourselves and others miserable. The fact that Zen Buddhism doesn't have any set lists of hard-and-fast rules which are supposed to work anywhere at anytime for anyone at all does not mean that everything is OK. Right and wrong still exist.
To extend the metaphor I used last time, if a professional bowler told you that using a bowling ball is the right way to bowl and using a big ball of yarn was the the wrong way, you'd probably take his advice. But for reasons I'll never fully comprehend, people don't seem interested in the same kind of advice when it's offered by a Zen teacher. And this is fine. If you want to make mistakes, I'm not going to stop you. Bowl a few frames with your ball of yarn and see how it works. When you're done with that maybe we can talk.
In the chapter on doing zazen in my book I mention only sitting on a cushion in the full lotus, half lotus and Burmese positions (what we used to call "sitting Indian style" when we were kids). I thought hard about adding some lines about doing zazen on a wooden bench they call a seiza bench or doing it while sitting in a chair, but I decided against it. I didn't do this lightly either. I had some very good reasons based upon practice and experience.
I know all the arguments against sitting in the correct position. I hear them almost any time I or any other teacher I happen to be listening to starts talking about the proper sitting posture. Folks always start wildly speculating about hypothetical situations. "What if someone was in a horrific gardening accident and lost both arms and legs?" "What about people who've had their leg bones replaced with thermoplastic implants that can't possibly be bent into the lotus position or they'll break and leak poisonous compounds into their bloodstream killing them instantly?" "What about paraplegics? Can't they get enlightened?" "What about people with birth defects, or crippling diseases? Don't they have the Buddha nature too?"
The trouble is, I've never heard a question like this from someone who actually had a crippling disease, a birth defect, or who'd had both legs lobbed off by a madman in a samurai costume. In fact these questions always -- always -- come from people who are perfectly capable of doing proper zazen, but who would like an excuse not to.
The few times I've encountered people who had conditions that prevented them from doing zazen in the correct posture have been quite different. At the first place I practiced zazen there was a quadriplegic guy who used to sit with us. He just used his chin to push on this little lever on his motorized chair, wheeled himself up to the wall and faced it until the bell rang, at which point he'd use that lever to spin the chair around and make a little nod with his head when the rest of us bowed. Once a tennis pro visited one of our summer retreats. As athletic as he was, his legs had stiffened up to the point where no matter how hard he tried he could not make his knees touch the floor when he sat on a cushion. His solution was to grab another two cushions to support his knees while sitting. Afterwards he started working on some exercises to improve his lack of flexibility which, as an athlete, he regarded with some concern. These people did not look for excuses, but found ways to beat their own limitations.
There is no good reason why someone who writes about Zen absolutely needs to address a lot of hypothetical maybe type situations which might preclude someone from sitting in the proper position. People who really can't do those positions know it already and don't need to be told. If you're serious about zazen you will find a way to do it no matter what physical condition you're in. When a teacher meets someone with some specific condition that needs to be addressed, he or she can assess that person's situation and advise that person how best to do the practice in light of their unique situation. No problem. If you have any problems like that feel free to write me about it. But in cases like these, a face-to-face consultation is much more effective. Just don't be surprised if your teacher takes a look and says, "Stop making excuses and sit in the right position!"
It might sound very politically correct to address these kinds of things. But it leads to more problems than it solves because it allows people who really could do zazen properly to make excuses for themselves and do it wrong. How do I know this, you ask? Because I am one of those people. For many years, I fooled myself into believing I was simply incapable of sitting in the lotus position. This in spite of the fact that I knew very well that I could twist my legs up in that position and hold it for several minutes at a time. My teachers were both so tough that when they saw me doing zazen wrong they didn't hit me with a stick or shout. In fact they did not say a word. They'd already explained how zazen was supposed to be done. They knew I understood. And yet I wasn't doing it right. So they just let me keep right on doing it that way.
Those kinds of teachers are the toughest around. They'll let their students spend years and years doing things wrong until the students discover their own mistakes for themselves because they know there is nothing more convincing than when you discover your own mistakes for yourself. I wish life wasn't this hard. But sometimes it just is. And here I am, an old softie, telling you how to do it right. Just call me Master Marshmallow.
After a few years of sitting zazen wrong, I finally buckled down and started doing it right and noticed a tremendous difference, not just physically, but mentally as well. You will too if you try it.
Since I discovered what real sitting was I must have encountered a couple dozen other lame-o's just like me who actually could manage the posture if they made a little bit of effort, but who begged out of it with all kinds of half-assed excuses. These guys (who seem to all be American and male, by the way, for what that's worth) all seem to be saying, "Hey, look at me, I'm not one of those cross-legged schmucks. Cuz I have a unique problem with my legs/back/neck, you see..." It reminds me of the character on the old Second City TV show who could walk, but rode around in a wheelchair to get sympathy. It's like looking at your friend who's suicidally depressed because of repeated abuse she suffered as a child who's gotten better by taking Prozac® and thinking that maybe you should try taking some because you're kinda down in the dumps since your girlfriend dumped you to go out with a professional Pogo Stick® champion. But, hey, if that's what you really want to do, fine by me.
Zazen is not a "spiritual" practice. It is the effort of mind and body. Body and mind are one and the same. If you were not born with eighteen slimy green tentacles instead of legs -- or whatever -- and you still cannot manage the lotus position, this is evidence that you have abused your body for many, many years. If you don't believe me, find me one able bodied three year old who cannot do the lotus position or indeed bend her body in ways most accomplished yogis or gymnasts would envy. You had that ability too when you were that age and you lost it. No, let me be more direct. You threw it away. And if the body is not right, neither is the mind.
Zazen is very much a physical practice. As with any physical practice, there are right ways and wrong ways to do it. Keeping the spine straight using your own ability to balance the vertebrae on top of each other without any effort is the key to good zazen. Zazen is all about achieving physical as well as mental balance because they are the same thing. While sitting in zazen you're trying to maintain balance in your posture. Sit like you would if you had one of your rich Aunt Betty's antique porcelain dishes worth a couple hundred bucks balanced on top of your head. Stay straight and your mind will settle of its own accord. You won't need to count your breath or think about a koan or any of that silliness if you just keep your posture right.
If you're too fat to do zazen, try losing some weight. If your legs are too stiff, try doing what I did and learning some other yoga exercises to loosen those muscles up. Nothing worthwhile comes without effort. People who tell you you can do zazen just as well lying down or in a chair or on a kneeling bench are fooling you. Those kinds of practices are only for people who absolutely can't do anything else. They're effective practices for people who really, truly need them. That doesn't mean they'll work just as well for someone who doesn't.
You can achieve some kinds of wowie-zowie type spiritual states lying down or floating in tanks of heated water and all that. But that's not zazen and what you discover by those practices is not Reality. Sitting in your La-Z-Boy® and spacing out is not zazen.


SOURCE (http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/posture.html)

[FOCUS]

jezus man, wat doe je me aan! nu ben ik het aan mezelf verplicht om die hele lap tekst die je postte te gaan lezen..

maarre, meditatie is net als sex, niet denken maar voelen en t kan in elke positie

zo, en dan ga ik nu lezen dat de houding voor meditatie heel belangrijk is

[chief108]

:D

just focus....

[FOCUS]

gelukkig kan ik heel snel lezen

hmm, ja die houding,

ik kon een tijdje terug echt de hele dag Zen zijn, een met het Nu en al die shit. In elke houding of activiteit... Ik bewandelde een Pad en alle problemen en tegenslagen enz waren blaadjes. Ik liet me er niet door afleiden of beinvloeden, maar liep gewoon rustig door en als er zo'n blaadje vlak voor mij was, dan veegde ik het uit mn pad. Moeiteloos en zonder er al teveel aandacht aan te besteden.
Zo vocht ik ook. Blaadjes en ik veegde zn van mn pad. Het was geweldig. Ik kon niet verliezen en ik verloor ook niet.
Helaas was ik psychotisch.

(true story by yours truly)

[ataraxia]

hmm, meditatietraining veonderstelt dat je daadwerkelijk een inspanning levert tijdens het mediteren. Voor zover ik aan meditatie doe (persoonlijk heb ik meer aan mediCatie), drukt mijn spiegologe me altijd op het hart om juist niet teveel te willen en proberen, en dat zelfs niet willen proberen op hetzelfde neerkomt als wel iets proberen..
ahem, klink ik nog enigszins zinnig> :shutup:


Yup. 't is namelijk heel eenvoudig. 'Willen proberen' veronderstelt een hechting aan de uitkomst; goed voelen als het lukt, slecht voelen als het niet lukt. Proberen kan ook om het proberen zijn...

Descartes zat er wel om meer redenen naast, maar naar mijn bescheiden mening Eckhart Tolle net zo goed :)

[chief108]

ik kon een tijdje terug echt de hele dag Zen zijn, een met het Nu en al die shit. In elke houding of activiteit... Ik bewandelde een Pad en alle problemen en tegenslagen enz waren blaadjes. Ik liet me er niet door afleiden of beinvloeden, maar liep gewoon rustig door en als er zo'n blaadje vlak voor mij was, dan veegde ik het uit mn pad. Moeiteloos en zonder er al teveel aandacht aan te besteden.
Zo vocht ik ook. Blaadjes en ik veegde zn van mn pad. Het was geweldig. Ik kon niet verliezen en ik verloor ook niet.
Helaas was ik psychotisch.

:laugh:
details, details...

[FOCUS]

Descartes zat er wel om meer redenen naast, maar naar mijn bescheiden mening Eckhart Tolle net zo goed :)

vertel :)


Chief, shut up :finger:

[ataraxia]

Ik moet wel zeggen dat ik het niet heel uitgebreid bestudeerd heb, heb alleen eens een paar uur naar zijn luisterboek moeten luisteren, tot grote ergernis. Ten eerste omdat het bol staat van de drogredeneringen. En dan zal ik wel weer te veel met m'n linker hersenhelft luisteren. (overigens spreekt een boek altijd ook het analytisch vermogen aan, al was het maar vanwege het fenomeen taal. Daarom ben ik ook niet zo van de boedhistische filosofie, maar meer van het sit down and shut up model, en er verder niet teveel over lullen.) Maar dat is precies probleem nummer 2. De veronderstelde sterke tegenstelling tussen denken en voelen. En het bijbehorende oordeel denken boeh, voelen hurrah. Dat daar soms een tegenstelling merkbaar kan zijn beteken niet dat het twee essentieel tegengestelde fenomenen zijn. En dat mensen kunnen lijden door de manier waarop hun gedachtenwereld gestructureerd is betekent niet dat denken de oorzaak van het lijden is. Voelen is net zo goed een vorm die iets aan de wereld oplegt, en kan mensen net zo hard tot lijden brengen. Mediteren gaat wat mij betreft ook niet om voelen in plaats van denken, maar om uberhaupt een toestand van bewustzijn aan te kunnen nemen waarin dat onderscheid niet meer relevant is.

Oja, ik hou ook niet van het masker/ ware zelf beeld van identiteit.

Valt allemaal veel meer over te zeggen natuurlijk, maar tot zo ver mijn eerste gdachten...

[FOCUS]

...

stof tot nadenken
thnx

[ataraxia]

Graag gedaan :)

Ik zie overigens ook wel weer dat zo'n perspectief een ander licht kan werpen op dingen, gegeven een bepaald begin-perspectief, en dat mensen zich erdoor kunnen laten inspireren. En daar wil ik verder niet aan af doen, wat werkt werkt, en dat kan voor iedereen wat anders zijn.

[chief108]

maar om uberhaupt een toestand van bewustzijn aan te kunnen nemen waarin dat onderscheid niet meer relevant is.

HURRAH!!!

[ataraxia]

:laugh:

Ik schud ze ook maar uit de losse pols :blush:

(Nee, dat is geen manier van uitdrukken. Maar ja.)

[chief108]

hier een clipje van z'n bandje

<font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#999999"><br/><a style="font: Verdana" href="http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=28209315">Better Way - Zero Defects 0dfx</a><br/><object width="425px" height="360px" ><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="transparent"/><param name="movie" value="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=28209315,t=1,mt=video"/><embed src="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=28209315,t=1,mt=video" width="425" height="360" allowFullScreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed></object><br/><a style="font: Verdana" href="http://www.myspace.com/groundzerogrrl">Spanky♥Butt</a> | <a style="font: Verdana" href="http://vids.myspace.com">MySpace Video</a></font>