[TRAINING] The Tabata Method oftwel 240 seconds of pain...

[chief108]

is een klassiekertje ondertussen
dus mag hier ook niet ontbreken ;)

check dit artikeltje op T-nation:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....4-046-training (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-046-training)

het klinkt te simpel om waar te zijn:
20 seconden intense activiteit gevolgd door 10 seconds rust en dat 8 keer achter elkaar voor een totaal van 4 minuten

gewoon dezelfde oefening

simpel right???
en helemaal tof voor mensen zoals ik die een enorm drukke baan hebben :whistling:

trouwens als je geen zin hebt om op een klok te kijken om de tijd bij te houden, kijk dan hier:
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/26/35002.html

ken je een Tabat mp3 downloaden voor bij je training of leren hoe je er zelf 1 maakt...

verder zijn de oefeningen natuurlijk op duizend en 1 manier uit te breiden:

Bodyweight Squats
Ring Push-Ups
Heavybag Punching
Speedbag Punching
Band Punching
Plyobox Jumps
Spin Bike on high resistance
Sandbag Squats...

[chief108]

Enter the Tabata MethodTabata is the name of a Japanese researcher who discovered an interesting way to increase both anaerobic and aerobic pathways at the same time. It's one of those strange training programs that seems to fit across disciplines: it's excellent for bicyclists, speed skaters, Olympic lifters, or the person looking to lose fat quickly.
This training method is so simple, yet so incredibly difficult, that athletes tend to try it once, acknowledge its greatness, and then vow to never speak its name again. What is it? It's simple: take one exercise and perform it in the following manner: 1) For twenty seconds, do as many repetitions as possible.
2) Rest for ten seconds
3) Repeat seven more times!
That's it! You're done in four minutes! Oh, and that thing you're trying to brush off your face? That would be the floor.
Eight sets of "as many reps as you can get done," followed with a brief ten second rest— simple and effective. The two best exercise options for the Tabata method are the front squats and the "thruster," which I'll describe in a bit.
It helps to have someone record the reps of each set for you because, well, you won't remember after you pass out. I use the "lowest rep number" of any of the eight sets as my measurement to compare workout to workout. If you go too heavy, that number might be two. If you go too light, you might find yourself getting around 15 reps or more.
Before we talk about the exercises, let's take a moment to be perfectly clear about what we're doing. This isn't "eight sets of eight," although the goal of doing eight reps in each of the twenty second clusters is about right. Instead it's "as many reps as I can get in" during the twenty seconds, followed by ten seconds rest.
And by the way, ten seconds is not racking the bar, getting a drink, talking to the cute girl on the bike, looking at the clock, walking back to the bar, chalking up, adjusting the belt, talking to a friend, then doing the next set. Ten second is ten seconds! No cheating!

[Socra]

http://www.beach-fitness.com/tabata/

Deze timer is de bom... :)

[chief108]

geinig..

[FOCUS]

vet,
ik zat gister nog op te scheppen over tabata-shit om indruk te maken op het vrouwtje
das geen toeval!

thnx chief,
goed bezig

[thefxr]

Enter the Tabata MethodTabata is the name of a Japanese researcher who discovered an interesting way to increase both anaerobic and aerobic pathways at the same time. It's one of those strange training programs that seems to fit across disciplines: it's excellent for bicyclists, speed skaters, Olympic lifters, or the person looking to lose fat quickly.
This training method is so simple, yet so incredibly difficult, that athletes tend to try it once, acknowledge its greatness, and then vow to never speak its name again. What is it? It's simple: take one exercise and perform it in the following manner: 1) For twenty seconds, do as many repetitions as possible.
2) Rest for ten seconds
3) Repeat seven more times!
That's it! You're done in four minutes! Oh, and that thing you're trying to brush off your face? That would be the floor.
Eight sets of "as many reps as you can get done," followed with a brief ten second rest— simple and effective. The two best exercise options for the Tabata method are the front squats and the "thruster," which I'll describe in a bit.
It helps to have someone record the reps of each set for you because, well, you won't remember after you pass out. I use the "lowest rep number" of any of the eight sets as my measurement to compare workout to workout. If you go too heavy, that number might be two. If you go too light, you might find yourself getting around 15 reps or more.
Before we talk about the exercises, let's take a moment to be perfectly clear about what we're doing. This isn't "eight sets of eight," although the goal of doing eight reps in each of the twenty second clusters is about right. Instead it's "as many reps as I can get in" during the twenty seconds, followed by ten seconds rest.
And by the way, ten seconds is not racking the bar, getting a drink, talking to the cute girl on the bike, looking at the clock, walking back to the bar, chalking up, adjusting the belt, talking to a friend, then doing the next set. Ten second is ten seconds! No cheating!

21-en deed ik vroeger al, niks nieuws aan!

[d4nd3l10n]

Question everything...

I was looking around on various MMA websites tonight to get ideas of what other coaches and trainers are advocating for training these days (every once in awhile I come across something interesting) and I noticed that almost everybody includes two things in their training programs: complexes and intervals. A lot of programs are really more than the two put together in some random fashion.

While I'm certainly not against using barbell or dumbbell complexes in training and I use intervals in just about every program at some point or another, I couldn't find a single example of someone talking about why they use complexes, what exactly they are supposed to be accomplishing. Complexes do serve a specific purpose and they can be useful, but most of these guys incorporating them every which way to sunday in their programs yet have NO idea what they do or why they are even using them.

As far as intervals, it's even worse. There are so many different interval protocols recommended it's ridiculous and yet again it's almost impossible to try and find a single recommendation for an interval work:rest ratio that is based on any kind of science or real understanding of energy systems. Just because some interval program is hard does NOT mean it's effective at improving something, it just means it's hard. The whole Tabata thing is a great example of this, everyone says how hard it is so that must mean it's the most effective way to interval train right?

[d4nd3l10n]

En ook de dude van de t-nation.com link (dan john) hierboven is er enigszins op terug gekomen...

Check:

• I almost want to call Izumi Tabata, the Japanese researcher, and apologize for all the Internet nonsense I've caused by my Tabata Method article.

• The issue with Tabata is that people think it's part of a workout. The truth is, if done right, you'd need a gun to make an athlete do another set. Izumi had to practically force his athletes to get back on those bikes.

• If you do push-ups for 20 seconds, then rest for 10 seconds and continue that for 4 minutes, it is not the Tabata protocol. Tabata is 20 seconds on and 10 seconds off for 4 minutes, but the mere fact that you can do sit-ups and "Tabata" jumping jacks afterwards tells me that you're not doing the original plan.

• I made a mistake in the article saying that thrusters were okay. The more I did it and the longer I had athletes do it, the more I realized this was an absolute failure. It's terrible! There's only one weight-lifter exercise that works with Tabata: the front squat.

• If you do 115 pounds in the Tabata front squat, you will not at the end of those 4 minutes look at me and say, "Now what do I do for the next 4 minutes?"

• No, you're going to do what I did when I used to do these in my driveway. You're going to lay there on the ground with your dog sniffing at you, worried about your life. You do not repeat a true Tabata workout.

• It's an act of will to finish the last two minutes. You should be looking at the clock and thinking, "Only one more minute until I have one more minute!" That's a Tabata workout. And it only works with front squats.

bron:http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/bigger_better_faster_longer

[d4nd3l10n]

Ik ben het trouwens niet met hem eens dat het alleenmet front squats werkt. Hell, de research die gedaan is, is op een FIETS gedaan... En dat heeft met 'kracht' training helemaal niks te maken..

[FOCUS]

tis ook geen systeem op zich,
eerder een manier om te trainen, een schema
zoals er wel 100 schema's te bedenken zijn om hypertrofie te trainen, of lactisch vermogen, of ......etc etc etc

tis wel errug intensief, waardoor je training tot 1 oefening beperkt moet worden en de hersteltijd is erg lang. Daarom is het imo in zijn oorspronkelijke vorm en uitvoering niet of nauwelijks in een dagelijks trainingsroutine te passen.

[Chico]

Ik blijf een voorstander van powercleans of sumo deadlift highpull bij tabata... dan zijn de laatste 2 minuten inderdaad hell...

[d4nd3l10n]

@FOCUS: Klopt.. Het kan in een trainingsschema passen, ergens, op een bepaalde tijd onder bepaalde voorwaarden.

Waar ik schijtziek van wordt is dat het als de holygrail wordt gezien. Betere conditie? TABATA! Meer spieruithoudingsvermogen? TABATA!
Laten we elke oefening uitvoeren op de tabata manier. Want tabata werkt. Tabata situps, tabata pushups, tabata squats en allemaal in 1 training.

Fuck that! Ten eerste is het daar niet voor bedoeld en ten tweede 3 tabata's in één sessie? YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

Ennu Crossfit sucks balls. Bigtime....

[Chico]

Ennu Crossfit sucks balls. Bigtime....
waarom?

[d4nd3l10n]

Waar moet ik beginnen...

[Chico]

bij het begin?

[d4nd3l10n]

Tja dat is het probleem. Er zijn zoveel dingen die ik slecht vind aan het hele crossfit gebeuren dat ik geeneens weet wat nou het ergste is.

Ik ga ff nadenken, bronnen opzoeken en zal het dan proberen te formulieren in een uitgebreid onderbouwd antwoord.

[Chico]

Cool...

[d4nd3l10n]

Ik beter gewoon een paar quotes neerpleuren want, andere mensen kunnen het veel beter verwoorden dan ik..

Typically whatever methodology a trainer/coach is most well versed in is what they think every athlete needs to develop. The guys who are powerlifting based think every athlete is too weak and just needs to get strong as hell. The olympic lifting guys think every athlete is too slow and just needs to do the olympic lifts to increase power. The functional guys think every athlete is unbalanced and doesn't have "functional strength" and needs to do a bunch of random coordination exercises and work on their TvA. The CrossFit crowd thinks you should be good at everything so you should just train completely at random, etc.

The real problem is that many people don't understand the real physiological needs of different sports and their model and understanding of performance is completely off. Athletes aren't powerlifters, olympic lifters, or circus clowns, and they don't need to be jack of all trades, they need to be the master of just one. Training needs to be specific to the individual and the physiological needs of the sport but very few programs I've ever seen really understand this fundamental principle.

As coreycav said, it's not totally worthless but there are much more effective training methods. It's been very well marketed and its popularity says a lot about how easily people are led into believing something if you sell it well enough. Basically the whole thing is a total random assortment of exercises and methods with next to no rhyme or reason, individualization, or progression and that's been sold as being effective for long term progress. The guy who "invented" CrossFit has no real scientific or training background and doesn't look like he could do a single one of his own workouts himself.

The fundamental principles they say their program is built on is a lot of nonsense and incorrect in many areas. Unfortunately, people would rather blindly follow a workout trend that they think is cool or better because it's really hard than think for themselves and take the time to educate themselves about what really works and what doesn't. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize doing a bunch of totally random crap everyday is not the best way to long term results. Sure it's better than doing nothing, but just about anything is better than doing nothing so that's not saying a whole lot. In the end, I'm sure there are some CrossFit facilities out there with good coaches who get results, but from what I've heard there's more bad coaches and unqualified people running these places out there than anything else. I'm sure in the next couple of years the fad will die out and something new will come along. Perhaps CrossFit is better than doing everything on unstable surfaces and the whole "functional training" trend that came along and is slowly starting to pass, but perhaps not.

bron: Joel Jamieson (http://www.8weeksout.com)
Trainer van o.a. Jens Pulver en Sakurai

Crossfit? I have no clue what the hell that is. Is that one of those systems that's a mish-mash of everything?

Wait, I saw on article on that in Muscle & Fatness. Looked like a bunch of cachexic fitness-model wannabes searching for their souls in the weight room.

It reminds me of a Hungarian proverb: "If you only have one ***, you can't sit on two horses." If you try to do everything in your workout, you get nothing.

Another way to look at it is to think of Tim Ferris's example of wearing your underwear over your pants. It's different, and maybe even fun for some people, but it's not very effective.

No athlete has ever gotten good training like that.

wordt vervolgd

[d4nd3l10n]

Deel 2

“The best program is the one you’re not using,” is one of my favorite axioms. I say this because I’ve never believed that there is one perfect workout system. The high-intensity training methods of the late Arthur Jones work…for a time. Strongman training works…for at time. And weightlifting and powerlifting methods work…for a time. Variety, whether it be correcting a lack of it or too much of it, is one of the keys to making continual progress with your training and achieving your goals. And that brings up the topic of CrossFit, Inc. TM

.

If you Google the words “Poliquin” and “CrossFit,” you’ll find that there has been a considerable amount of discussion about my recent comments on another website about this method of training. Although my intent was to make a few general comments about what I thought of this method of training – and throw in a few wisecracks in the process – it’s obvious that a more in-depth discussion about CrossFit is in order. So, here it is. What is CrossFit? Founded by Greg Glassman nearly three decades ago, CrossFit is a militaristic type of workout that uses a variety of training methods, including gymnastics and Olympic lifting, using short rest intervals. CrossFit is very popular with the military, police forces and mixed martial artists. CrossFit offers certifications, and graduates can pay a fee to become an affiliate. And because the equipment used is relatively inexpensive, it’s relatively easy to open a CrossFit gym. Often with CrossFit you won’t perform the same workout twice, and because CrossFit often facetiously uses feminine names to describe their workouts, your training schedule might look like this: Monday, “Fran”; Wednesday, “Grace”; Friday, “Helen.” Here are some workouts I’ve found on a CrossFit website: Linda Perform the following circuit using this repetition scheme 10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 – for time: A1. Deadlift, 1 1/2 Bodyweight A2. Bench Press, Bodyweight A3. Clean, 3/4 Bodyweight Nancy Perform five sets of the following superset, for time: A1. 400 meter run A2. Overhead squat 95 lbs x 15 Diane Perform three supersets of the following exercises, for time, performing sets of 21/15/9 reps. A1. Deadlift 225 lbs A2. Handstand push-ups The CrossFit program is controversial. A New York Times article published on December 22, 2005, presented these quotes by Glassman: “It can kill you…I’ve always been completely honest about that,” and “If you find the notion of falling off the rings and breaking your neck so foreign to you, then we don’t want you in our ranks.” The article also said that a popular axiom among CrossFit practitioners is “I met Pukey,” which suggests they have vomited as a result of training so hard. Notes the author of the article, Stephanie Cooperman, “Some even own T-shirts emblazoned with a clown. Pukey. CrossFit’s other mascot is Uncle Rhabdo, another clown, whose kidneys have spilled onto the floor presumably due to rhabdomyolsis.” Rhabdomyolsis is a serious kidney disease, often associated with excessive exercise. On the legal side, on October 9, 2008, the Associated Press filed this story: “MANASSAS, Va. — A former Navy information systems technician has been awarded $300,000 after suing a Manassas gym over an exercise program he says left him permanently disabled. “Makimba Mimms, 29, of Bristow says the CrossFit workout he did in 2005 caused him to urinate blood and his legs to swell. “Mimms sued Manassas World Gym, where he did the workout; Ruthless Training Concepts, a CrossFit affiliate at the time; and a Ruthless employee who administered the workout. A Prince William County jury found all three defendants liable Wednesday.” In the legal complaint, these were the specific breaches of duty (constituting negligence or gross negligence) cited against instructor Javier Lopez:

* He failed to exercise ordinary care.
* He failed to refrain from injuring plaintiff.
* He failed to give plaintiff proper and reasonable instruction.
* He gave plaintiff unreasonable and hazardous instructions, entreating and demanding that plaintiff exert extraordinary effort, not cease to rest, not cease to drink fluids or regain his strength, breath and resilience.
* He failed to refrain from exposing him to extraordinary hazards and actual injury to his person.
* He failed to observe and monitor plaintiff so as to guard and protect him from injury.

In the basic CrossFit certification, which costs $1,000, participants are introduced to numerous workout protocols and exercises, including the Olympic lifts. According to recent comments on a website from an individual who went through the certification, and from information that I viewed on their website, these certifications primarily consist of participating in workouts. There is no written exam to determine if the participants fully understand the material presented. Pay $1,000 and you are certified, and pay $1,000 and you can promote your business as an affiliate. The first CrossFit gym opened in 1995, and I’ve read where there are now over 600 CrossFit affiliates. A Cause for Concern Many individuals love CrossFit, and in fact it has been criticized as having a cultlike following. Many of these individuals believe it is the perfect program that will enable them to achieve their goals and are very satisfied with their progress. And I have no doubt that some individuals have never been injured from CrossFit. That being said, here are six of my major issues with this form of training. 1. Lack of Sufficient Testing Protocols. In looking over detailed notes from a CrossFit certification, I was concerned about the lack of testing for structural balance issues with trainees. There are protocols for beginning, intermediate and advanced workouts using multi-joint movements. But in my work with Olympians in 20 different sports and with numerous professional athletes, before having any athletes perform their first power clean or squat, I recommend a series of structural balance tests to red-flag muscle imbalances that could increase the athlete’s risk of injury. And if there is a history of injuries with an athlete, those should be addressed in any workout design. One reason Olympic shot-putter Adam Nelson could not perform power snatches before I started personal training with him was that he had adhesions in his rotator cuff muscles – after we addressed this injury with such treatments as Active ReleaseTM, Nelson was able to reintroduce this valuable exercise in his workout and within a month did 286 pounds for three reps. Jim McKenzie, a professional hockey player I’ve trained, went from a 280-pound close-grip bench press to 380 pounds in less than four months by focusing on corrective exercises – and for the first three months of this program Jim did not perform bench presses! 2. Focus on a Single Training Protocol. In regards to the concept of specificity, the protocols in CrossFit are not appropriate for developing the highest levels of strength or power or speed. It is doubtful that you will see any elite powerlifters, weightlifters or sprinters using CrossFit protocols as their primary method of conditioning. For example, I’m training Sam Baker, an NFL lineman who needed to dramatically increase his strength and muscle mass. Prior to Baker’s entering the NFL, where he went as a #1 draft pick, in two months my training protocols enabled him to add 25 pounds of solid muscle, reduce his bodyfat by 8.1 percent, increase his vertical jump by four inches and significantly increase his strength. I didn’t accomplish this by having him superset high-rep push-ups with mile runs. Many sport coaches often overemphasize energy system training with athletes, often to the detriment of other physical qualities. Check out any exercise physiology textbook and look at the studies performed on elite athletes and their VO2 maxes. It is not necessary for a baseball player, or a basketball player for that matter, to have a VO2 max of 70. The promotional materials I’ve read about CrossFit imply that this type of training addresses all the strength and conditioning needs of an athlete, but the concept of specificity suggests that if you try to excel at everything it is unlikely that you will reach the highest levels at anything. This is why we don’t see individuals who can run a mile in four minutes flat and also bench press 500 pounds. 3. Insufficient Instruction for Teaching Complex Training Methods. It takes more than a single weekend seminar to develop the competency to teach certain types of exercises or be able to adequately prescribe protocols for complex training methods. In this category I would include the classical Olympic lifts, strongman exercises and plyometrics. Often in the strength coaching profession these aforementioned training methods have been criticized as dangerous; but when you look at why athletes become injured from these training methods, it can often be traced to poor technique. 4. Inappropriate Repetition Brackets for Complex Exercises. Although high repetitions and short rest intervals can be used to develop muscular endurance, these protocols should not be used in some exercises. This is especially true with the Olympic lifts, as it is difficult to maintain proper technique when using high reps with these exercises – especially when supersetting them with other multi-joint exercises such as deadlifts. Simply watching CrossFit trainees performing these lifts in videos on their website will confirm this truth. Further, the Olympic lifting movements are most appropriate for developing power; if you want to develop muscular endurance, simpler movements should be used. 5. Inappropriate Exercise Order. To achieve specific responses from exercises, the exercise order should be addressed. As shown in the “Linda” workout described earlier, what is the logic in fatiguing the lower back with deadlifts prior to performing power cleans? To activate the high-threshold motor units with power cleans and to perform them with optimal technique, all the sets of the power clean should be performed before deadlifts. Further, combining weight training exercises with sprints places an athlete at a high risk of injury, especially to the hamstrings. 6. Endorsement of Controversial Exercises. On one website of a CrossFit affiliate, I saw video clips of athletes jumping onto cars and standing on Swiss balls. I appreciate having a wide variety of exercises to use with clients, but you have to question the logic of using such high-risk exercises in a program. The principle of individuality suggests that not everyone will response equally to the same workout program, and that for optimal results a workout program should take into account those factors that are responsible for this difference. If you’re an 18-year-old Army recruit about to be deployed to Iraq, then perhaps the CrossFit program might be appropriate for this individual. If you’re an elite athlete trying to reach the highest levels in your sport, a CrossFit approach may not be the optimal way to train. Because of these concerns, I cannot recommend CrossFit training, especially for those seeking the highest levels of athletic performance. But in the interest of being open-minded, let’s leave it at this: Despite its many inadequacies, CrossFit is a workout system that is continually evolving. It’ll be interesting to see how the program changes as more athletes, and non-athletes, participate in this program.

Wordt vervolgd

[d4nd3l10n]

A lot of individuals love CrossFit. Many of them believe it's the perfect program to achieve their goals. They're very satisfied with their progress. And I have no doubt that some individuals have never been injured from CrossFit.

That said, I have six major issues with CrossFit-type training:
1. Lack of sufficient testing protocols
When I looked over detailed notes from a CrossFit certification, I saw protocols for beginning, intermediate, and advanced workouts using multi-joint movements. But I didn't see any protocols for testing trainees for structural-balance issues.
I've worked with Olympians in 23 different sports, along with lots of professional athletes. Before having any of those athletes do their first power clean or squat, I do a series of tests to red-flag muscle imbalances that could increase the risk of injury.
And if there's a history of injuries with that athlete, then of course that's addressed in the workout design.
I'll give you an example: Olympic shot-putter Adam Nelson couldn't do power snatches before I started working with him because he had adhesions in his rotator cuff muscles. After we addressed the injury with Active Release Techniques (ART), Nelson was able to reintroduce the exercise in his workouts. Within a month he was handling personal-best weights.
Jim McKenzie, a professional hockey player I've trained, went from a 281-pound close-grip bench press to 380 pounds in less than four months by focusing on corrective exercises — and that's without doing any bench presses at all for the first three months!

2. Focus on a single training protocol
The protocols in CrossFit aren't appropriate for developing the highest levels of strength or power or speed. I doubt if you'll see any elite powerlifters, weightlifters, or sprinters using CrossFit protocols as their primary method of conditioning.
For example, when I trained [long jumper] Dwight Phillips for the Athens Games, we worked first on structural balance, and then on increasing his eccentric strength.
Click the image to open in full size.
Besides winning gold medals at the World Championships in Helsinki in 2005 and the Olympic Games in 2004, in training he beat some top-ranked sprinters in the 100 meters. I didn't accomplish this by having him superset high-rep push-ups with mile runs.
Coaches often overemphasize energy-system training with athletes, to the detriment of other physical qualities. Check out any exercise physiology textbook and look at the studies performed on elite athletes and their VO2 maxes. It's not necessary for a baseball player — or a basketball player for that matter — to have a VO2 max of 70. [A VO2 max in the high 50s is considered outstanding for a male in his late 20s.]
The promotional materials I've read about CrossFit imply that this type of training addresses all the strength and conditioning needs of an athlete, but the concept of specificity tells us that if you try to excel at everything, you aren't likely to reach the highest levels at anything.
This is why we don't see individuals who can run a mile in four minutes flat that can also bench press 500 pounds.

3. Insufficient instruction for teaching complex training methods
It takes more than a single weekend seminar to develop the competency to teach certain types of exercises, or to prescribe protocols for complex training methods. I'd include Olympic lifts, strongman exercises, and plyometrics in this category.
These training methods are sometimes criticized as dangerous by strength coaches. But when you look at why athletes become injured, you can often point to poor technique.
Interestingly enough, my first comments about CrossFit got a lot of business for my PICP coaches. They got calls from CrossFit practitioners who wanted to learn how to lift properly.

4. Inappropriate repetition brackets for complex exercises
Although high reps and short rest intervals can be used to develop muscular endurance, these protocols shouldn't be used with some exercises.
This is especially true with Olympic lifts, where it's difficult to maintain proper technique with high reps. And it's especially difficult when supersetting Olympic lifts with deadlifts, or any other multijoint exercise. If you want confirmation, just watch CrossFit trainees do these lifts in videos on their website.
The Olympic lifts should be used to develop power. If you want to develop muscular endurance, you should use simpler movements.

5. Inappropriate exercise order
In the CrossFit "Linda" workout, what's the logic in fatiguing the lower back with deadlifts before doing power cleans? Not only does it prevent you from doing the power cleans with optimal technique, it makes it more difficult to activate high-threshold motor units. That's why you should do all your sets of power cleans before you do deadlifts.
Another problem is that combining weight-training exercises with sprints places an athlete at a high risk of injury, especially to the hamstrings.

6. Endorsement of controversial exercises
On one website of a CrossFit affiliate, I saw video clips of athletes jumping onto cars and standing on Swiss balls. I appreciate the need to use a wide variety of exercises with clients, but not if they're high-risk exercises.
Because of these six concerns, I can't recommend CrossFit training, especially for those seeking the highest levels of athletic performance.
But in the interest of being open-minded, let's leave it at this: Despite its shortcomings, the CrossFit system is continually evolving. It'll be interesting to see how it changes as more athletes, along with nonathletes, participate in the program.

bron: Charles Poliquin (http://www.charlespoliquin.com)
Trainer van o.a. Olympische atleten wereldwijd.

[d4nd3l10n]

As many T-Nation readers may remember, I also trained in the Crossfit style for two years. In Tyler Hass's famous interview with Crossfit's founder, Greg Glassman, I saw another interesting promise:

"If you come to us with a four-minute mile, six months into it you are going to be 30 seconds slower but a whole hell of a lot fitter. Similarly, if you come to us with a 900-pound squat, in six months it's going to be 750 pounds, but you, too, will be much fitter. A four-minute mile and a 900-pound squat are both clear and compelling evidence of a lack of balance in your program. This doesn't reflect the limitations of our program but the inherent nature of flesh and blood. But here's the fascinating part. We can take you from a 200-pound max deadlift to a 500-750 pound max deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year."

The same issue emerges here: a four-minute mile is a world-class time which would/should/could/probably provide this athlete with a salary, or at least a free education. A 4:30 mile isn't unusual in a high school state meet. Certainly, there are lots of examples of students running these times well before their junior year. So, here's the rub: we're recommending a program that literally takes one from world class to solid high school performer?

The point about the 750 pound max deadlift can only be demonstrated by the platform, but I've been around the game a long time and a 750 deadlifter is a rarity with any program anywhere. In my only powerlifting contest, I was the last successful deadlifter that night (3:00 AM, deadlifting 628; hard on the nerves, by the way) and any program that can get me to 750 with minimal deadlifting is worth a serious study.

In this example, we see another issue. The Crossfit community took on the definition of fitness credited to Jim Crawley and Bruce Evans of Dynamax, who market an excellent medicine ball. The Crawley/Evans definition includes ten components that all of us would recognize in a moment, including strength, speed, and power.

However, I've always used Doctor Phil Maffetone's original definition that fitness is the "ability to do a task." In his more recent works, he's changed the definition to "the ability to be physically active." I like the original.

Why do I love the original definition? Maffetone's great insight was that he separated "health" from "fitness." Health is the "harmony" of the organs to operate "optimally." Fitness is task-based. I think fitness is throwing the discus far. I could set up an entire website that has this single definition.

Now, I recognize the limitations, but most fitness professionals don't. We tend to coach from our life experiences, a lesson that's absolutely correct. The problem is that we sometimes forget that "my goals" might not be "your goals."

By doing something as simple as changing or grasping on to a single definition of fitness, one can completely miss the point of training. Sending a discus thrower to train with elite bodybuilders is as mad as sending elite bodybuilders to train with me.

Recently, in a telephone discussion with Mark Reifkind, an elite coach, bodybuilder, powerlifter, and author, he made a point so obvious that I simply have nearly stopped thinking since he mentioned it. "If you want to know about fat loss or muscle building, ask top level bodybuilders. These guys know it."

In other words, quit buying fat loss devices off of the late night TV ads from former sitcom actors, quit buying "fat loss" stuff that grandma tried when her cribbage partner mentioned it, and quit trying fad diets. Instead, listen to the best of the best.

bron: Dan John (http://danjohn.org/coach)
Veel gezocht spreker, columnist, atleet en coach.

[d4nd3l10n]

Training crossfit to learn lifting technique is like seeking out Bob Sapp to learn how to box.

bron: Onbekend

[FOCUS]

:jason: dr gaat er eentje los op dit forum
teveel om nu te lezen
maar shit man
als ik het even scan dan zeg ik

GOED BEZIG:jason:

[d4nd3l10n]

Moet ook toch dat het forum een beetje los gaat!? Heb persoonlijk opdracht van Chief gekregen ;)

Thanks dude...

[d4nd3l10n]

Alleen omdat je van een workout met gewichten (ja het is beter dan je rondje machines of 40 minuten buikspieroefeningen en 60 min. borst en biceps) opeens buiten adem raakt (dus zgn. aan je conditie werkt), wil nog niet zeggen dat de workout optimaal is. Ookal is het heel anders dan dat je gewend bent en zie je in het begin vooruitgang. Je kan niet al je capaciteiten in één week trainen en nog progressie verwachten op alle aspecten die je getraind hebt.

bron: d4nd3l10n (http://www.chief108.com)
Voormalig trainer van huisvrouwen, ouwelijken, vetzakken, amateursporters en kutkinderen.

[chief108]

Moet ook toch dat het forum een beetje los gaat!? Heb persoonlijk opdracht van Chief gekregen ;)

braaf... :laugh:

[Socra]

Geweldig die berg aan informatie! In 1 dag...:eek:

[chief108]

was van mijn kant voornamelijk copy/ paste werk van spul wat ik nog bij Mifi had staan hoor

en een leeg forum ziet er zo arrememoejig uit...

[d4nd3l10n]

Reps voor dat..
Ik ga het denk ik maar afwisselen ofzo.. Tats=ma/woe/vrij, BodyMain=di/do/za.

[chief108]

hahaha
ik voel me ook net een jongleur...
dit onderwerp mag wel wat meer aandacht, oh... nee wacht...
die ook....

en......................

heb ook nog eens een stel kleine kinderen die moderator spelen en onderling proberen uit te maken wie nou de grootste plasser heeft :p

best zwaar hoor
Eigenaar van een Vechtsport Website zijn :laugh:

/sarcasme

[Chico]

Ik ben het in zoverre met de kritiek eens dat je crossfit niet moet zien als primaire trainingsmethode voor een specifieke sport... als je goed wilt worden in een sport.. doe die sport..

Crossfit gaat meer uit van de general preparedness physique (sp?) en dat komt ook naar voren in de stelling die zij maken: Ik verlies van jou in jouw sport, jij verliest van mij in mijn sport, in de overige sporten win ik het van je..

afgezien of dat waar is of niet..

de medcon oefeningen die zij doen (bv 21-15-9 power clean/pull up) geven in mijn ervaring wel een conditieverbetering... meer dan het normale hardlopen dat mij altijd aangeraden wordt in de dojo...

ik heb een tijd lang verschillende medcon oefeningen gedaan op bijna dagelijkse basis en mijn conditie en kracht gingen met sprongen vooruit, het is alleen tyfuszwaar... met mijn leerlingen heb ik hetzelfde gedaan in het concept van crossfit.. medcon en in onderlinge competitie... op een gegeven moment wonnen mijn jongens en meisje partijen simpelweg op conditie omdat ze de druk zodanig konden opvoeren dat de tegenstanders niet mee konden komen...

ik denk niet dat crossfit (als merknaam zijnde) alles is, maar denk dat de medcon ideën.. zoveel mogelijk, zo goed mogelijk in een zo kort mogelijke tijd een goede manier is om als vechtsporter je conditie (en kracht) op te bouwen... ik kan het niet onderbouwen met wetenschappelijke artikelen, slechts met wat voor mij goed werkt... en misschien is dat per persoon weer verschillend...

overigens is er niets mis mee om zo diep te gaan dat je daarna kotsend in de wc ligt... grenzen zijn er om gebroken te worden.. :whistling:

[FOCUS]

overigens is er niets mis mee om zo diep te gaan dat je daarna kotsend in de wc ligt... grenzen zijn er om gebroken te worden.. :whistling:


jezus Chico, we hebben een serieuze discussie over training en dan ga jij zitten opscheppen over die kroegentochten van je

:finger:

[Chico]

*zucht*

[chief108]

LOL

[Chico]

nou helemaal geen reactie meer van d4nd3l10n :(